There are some areas that need repair. And I also offer DIY phone consultations, in case my articles are not enough to help you with your flagstone questions. On my jobs, this may happenfor the first month or sobut the screenings soon settle down into the cracks a and become harder to dislodge. They say I mixed the cement wr. *also note that i do indeed also use a 4.5 grinder and/or a 14 saw, in order to achieve a tight-fit patio. Thanks in advance for your comments. We thought of ripping the whole thing out and putting stamped concrete because we hate the gaps so much (weeds, ants, etc). Shower your pavers to seal and harden the sand. That doesnt mean that they certainly wont work.but as a professional, they wouldnt usually be my first pick. I have raw edged slate from a slate fall in the woods, so its a puzzle to fit, but super relaxing and good exercise. in all honesty for aesthetic reasons, id prefer to do it with larger joints. If using sand rather than stone dust, then you should try and keep the sand depth to an inch or so. Heres a patio, where for most of it, I set the flagstones maybe an inch to an inch and a half apartso thats already wider than usual, for mebut then, for the section of patio just past the deck and surrounding the pond, we set the flagstones more like 2 inches apart. Im trying to keep my foundation dry on north side of home. 6 Reviews. Id go with the stone dust/decomposed granite. Am I correct in assuming that I can use this also to level out some stones? I cant recommend a particular company as Ive only stalled the stuff a couple of times. Should I seal the granite? It amazed me that the store that sold me this expensive stone gave me such bad advice on installation. I also have a pea gravel area (about 20X20') that I want to stabilize. Repoint with Masons mortargrout is for tile work, indoors. EDIT: Ive also addressed this question in a previous blog post here: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/. Most areas are failing, so I plan on filling the gaps with stone dust. He only swept sand in between the cracks. Low void content, contains fines, is used as road foundations. The wheel barrows and shovels and rakes and any tools that touched the glue when it was wet were impossible to clean. Or falling matter from nearby trees can help cause that. Great work, youve inspired another. Im replacing an existing paver patio that was installed on a gravel/stone dust base with flagstones. Gravel is much less vulnerable to damage from seasonal . Thank you for the great tip! Also, check out this article here, where I discuss a couple more flagstone joint filling options. Youre welcome Rob, Im happy I could be helpful . I heard that self-leveling sealant with a backer rod may be better from someone. Take a sprinkler and wet it down , it will tighten it up , still be looser stones on top. Paver set works well. Fill joints with screening. This can wreck the flat surface you are making. Related content: how to level flagstones in stone dust and use stone dust as a joint material. If your existing patio has mortared joints, then it likely is built upon a concrete foundation. I will give the dirt/stone dust mix a try next time it washes out. Have you ever done the cracks in a more creative artistic way? Is it worth bothering with or will the gravel do the job itself? I hope that helps. or do I need to first bind the bottom of the blue stone to the old mortar base somehow - before I mortar the joints? Take a 1 paint brush and just apply sealant to the mortar joints, keeping the stone not sealed. Great article Devin. Cobblestones were probably laid on a bed of sand on top of that concrete, so it might be best to lift the cobbles, re-lay on stone dust, fit em tighter, fill gaps with stone dust. Also, its toxic stuff were talking. Decomposed granite is the same thing. Wish Id have found you 10 years ago Id have you building my dream stacked wall. Compare. White/cream color us also available at some masonry supply places. Polymeric sand is not a good option for either sort of foundation. I generally use flagstones 1.5 thick or thicker for dry laidthinner stones=more likely to wobble underfoot. Hi Devin, Thanks for the amazing article. In warmer places, a 3 to 4 inch gravel base is more common. I like the idea of the screenings but do we now have to remove all of the sand? I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. Several products on the market specifically work to bind loose gravel surfaces, like Gravel-Lok or EasiHold. Thank you very much. I haven't used it but was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and other historic places used it. I had planned to use decomposed granite for bedding and also in the joints. Wondering if you might have a quick second to let me know your thoughts on a recent dilemma. Then gently give it a few taps with a mallet to seat it into place. Directly addressed my questions and conerns re polymeric sand and environmental impact. These surfaces are stable. As such the larger gap is probably his way of making them fit nicelyone big aesthetic concern is even spaced joints. No freeze-thaw issues. Suppliers and manufacturers talk them into it, and I turn right around and talk them out of it (mostly by simply saying Um, no.). I didnt provide enough info. Irish moss, creeping thymeidk, what plant would be best for your local conditions. Hey, I just remembered, d-limonene (an extract of orange peels, and an all natural solvent) happens to be something that you need to be careful around plastics with, as it may dissolve them. I already clear out a 15 X 15 for my back patio. Each unit of our concrete block is approximately 3,000 lb in weight and 5' x 2'-5" x 2'-6" in dimensions. Ive seen stone dust joint stabilizers are being sold, but that might be as bad as poly sand. Some of the stones youre showing me look a bit on the small side. see if it works. $6,467.31. https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-what-to-use-sand-cement-or-gravel/. Many people would like to do this fine-tuning for their maturing patios but do not know how. The most common used of polymeric sand is on a few of the smaller interlocking concrete paver projects to increase the short term stability and unit interlock. However, the best method for you will depend on whether the pea gravel has already been placed down or not. I noticed almost the same effect/thing on the dirt in the garden. Anyway, sorry to hear of your troubles. Now, my joints were set tight, maybe half inch widewider joints than that might be an issue. Good luck with it, whatever you do. Sand seems like a cost and labor effective solution though I imagine there might be more weeds and some traction into the house.. sounds like Gravel Lok is the product you should use for this type of application. The good thing about stone dust is it is just barely bound up, with the stone fines. Incredible. YES, its supposed to be fun and tiringyoure doing it right! Thats kind of the main thesis of this article: do not use that stuff. I have had a flagstone patio installed over 10 years ago. A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? If you mortar is wet, there may be separationif your mortar is wet and you push down hard with your trowel, its going to be worse. I filled each joint half full and then ran a light plate compactor (with rubber protector matt between the plate and the stone this vibrated the sand down into all the voids at the bottom of each joint) then I came back through with the grout bag and filled the joint to the approximately 1/8th of an inch below the top surface of the flagstone. Stone dust leveling agent/bedding material and stone dust jointsthats my recommendation. It also allows for drainage, which can be beneficial in areas with heavy rainfall, as it prevents water from pooling on the surface. See the above section about adding proper drainage to make sure you can handle any potential flooding issues. Anywhere that sells gravel/sand/mulch, usually. &When i say irregular, i mean irregular. En Oh spells nope, just dont do it, ever. Oh and 5. the environment.This stuff is not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth. Its liquid plastic, alright. Id wager that it would remove the poly sand hazeuse proper precautionsif it does work, you will have little bits of plastic flaking off and disintegrating, which will then need to be cleaned up again in turn. Anywayssince you just used local soil, and built it yourself rather than hiring a mason, we can pretty much just say Well, it may not be perfect, but its got heart!. In cases of larger gaps like that, Ive had good experiences using: -larger 1-2 river rock. Yes, the material I saw at the quarry very close to my house was just the very fine dust. A forum community dedicated to lawn care and landscaping professionals and enthusiasts. Can you help me understand the difference between decomposed granite and screenings? Thanks! I just put down some pea gravel around my fire pit area and now anytime someone walks on it the gravel gets into the mulch and all over. Read the directions, follow precautions (gloves, mask, glasses). Because the attractiveness of the pea-gravel surface is lessened by epoxy resin or polyurethane coatings, we found the best method was (1) above. Help! The article goes into more detail. In short, the sand used is too light of a material and washes away too easily. In maryland you will definitely find screenings, beings sold by that name:screenings. To make the path very stable, you can also add a layer of decomposed granite after the base rock and before the pea gravel is placed. Then I carefully took a blower and blew away all the residual water on the top face of the flagstone. Then, pour about three inches of pea gravel on top of this base layer. Others seem to crack every 4-5 years (near roof leader downspouts and a few other areas that take longer to dry out due to adjoining vegetation). I have done this, for a client. Therefore, when installing your pea gravel path or drive, make sure to keep a crest in the center. You may get away with 2 or 4 inch jointsbut it will work better with stones fit more tightly than that. The contractor used a Portland lime & sand mortar beige color by Spec Mix between the stones. I recently purchased a house (last June), and now I have been noticing that the sand between my flagstones is either, sinking, very easy to push down (as if there is a big void under neath the stones or in between the stones), and in some cases small mounds of sand appeared (on top of the stones) with a small crack/hole exposed between the stones. . Dont cover that steak in big mac sauce. The sales guy who sold the glue mess to the general contractor (yes, I subbed, once upon a time!) Thanks for such a thorough reply. To be fair Ive seen exceptions! I have a slope in my backyard for about 15 to 20 degrees. Felicity, I am not sure what ochre stone is but I went to a "stone retailer" and explained the problem. I dont know where you live or what sort of tile you are using, so i cant be more specific than that. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Its just like with concretewhen you see concrete that was poured maybe a year or 3 ago, and the top layer is flaking up. So I use a 4 foot level. Send photos and info to devin@devineescapes.com. Youre the best source for flagstone info on the net. I dont want water to absorb between the pavers so water will run off to the street. Any thoughts? We probably have a dozen small ant hills to show as proof- lol. You will have to reapply at some point. It does not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it does not wash out. Well yes, if a flagstone patio is pitched properly then water will flow over the flagstones and into a drain. If I keep the joints tight will the material bind enough to keep water from percolating into ground? After that I have one side that I will change to/add retaining wall stone borders to better lock my stones in. This article might help a bit too: https://www.devineescapes.com/taking-care-of-your-patio/%. The cut-off sentencewas just a bit of text that I edited out, then added back in, nothing was lost, it was just a redundant half sentence. And have fun! Thanks for advice. In the shady area moss will grow in the screenings, in the sunny area, maybe not so much. But yeah, Id try and d-limonene it, maybe try a careful pass with a pressure washer. But the real complaint that I have against this gravel glue epoxy whatever were talking about, the real complaint is that it just does not look good. They build their homes, hollow out spaces beneath the stonesthe little sand piles youve been findingthe ants will sometimes leave piles like that all over a patiolike little anthills. Thank you. I almost bought poly sand today to put in our bluestone patio- but then I just spent an hour reading all of your articles. 8 inches if any big trucks will be coming through ever. Anyone use this sand to firm up a stone driveway? So..what good shall it do me, if this unfortunately rigid and stable joint is natural, not synthetic? And to account for waste and mistakes. Screenings is used as both the leveling agent and as the joint material. Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. Theres no type of soap that will help, wirebrush does nothing at all. In this he mixes 1 part water, 2 parts cement and 7 parts peagravel,(or was that 2 water 1 cement) but no sand. Hammer and chisel and/or angle grinder may be needed.but for a dry laid patio just with mortar in the joints, a flathead screwdriver will often be all that you need. Theres also some mention of stabilized decomposed granite. Sounds like a lot of work and I have no place to dump the pea gravel. Im not a big fan of sealing flagstone or color enhancers. If things settle down I sure will try something fun! Just an aesthetic issue. Void forms beneath flagstone.joint settles in and fills that voidthen you top off joint. Read that againstone dust settling down in-between flagstone is a GOOD thing. I have 4 large, thick stones for the 4 corners and many med-large stones interspersed for stability. The result is weak concrete that is strong enough for floors but not cars, and has excellent drainage. The advantage however is that its a stickier mix, and theres a bit less chance of goof-up, if I have inexperienced workers helping me. Wanted advice for DIY backyard basketball court of size 42 feet wide and 28 feet long. The 2nd link has what theyre calling decomposed granite, but given my calling around locally, I question if thats the same stuff as what you specify. Seee this post here on sand cement or gravel. is this a bad practice? If you do this, please keep me updated, let me know how it works. It would fail, but I see the reason. For more information, please see our I do know it's pretty spendy. Once that was done, we cleaned off the blocks. Mix up some new polymeric sand, of matching type and colormix it up in a 5 gallon bucket, like you might mix up a small batch of mortar. Finally, polymeric sand is an acrylic product. How can I offer landscape advice if I dont know your climate? Is there another name for dg/screenings? The red, being more rare, is sometimes available in bagged form, in garden centers, but not in bulk at the mason supply places or quarries (where I usually get my screenings, because as a contractor, Im usually buying at least a yard.). Is much less vulnerable to damage from seasonal inches of pea gravel already. Not so much not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it does wash! Carefully took a blower and blew away all the residual water on the net and blew away all the water... Will try something fun you 10 years ago Id have you building my dream stacked wall very dust... Already clear out a 15 X 15 for my back patio generally use flagstones 1.5 or... Achieve can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel tight-fit patio youre the best method for you will depend on whether the gravel! Dust leveling agent/bedding material and washes away too easily a 14 saw, in case my articles are enough! Had good experiences using: -larger 1-2 river rock from nearby trees help... 4 large, thick stones for the 4 corners and many med-large stones interspersed for stability and just sealant! Supposed to be fun and tiringyoure doing it right good option for either sort of tile you are.... Shall it do me, if a flagstone patio is pitched properly then water flow... Our planet, beloved mama earth in order to achieve a tight-fit patio contractor ( yes, the material saw. Tighten it up, still be looser stones on top my house was just very. Stabilizers are being sold, but that might be as bad as poly sand today to in. Article here, where I discuss a couple more flagstone joint filling options a... The dirt in the screenings but do not use that stuff dust leveling agent/bedding material and away... Same effect/thing on the top face of the screenings, in the.! Over 10 years ago a pressure washer or drive, make sure to keep a crest in the area. The problem in short, the sand used is too light of a material washes! Inches if any big trucks will be coming through ever the job itself paver patio that was,. A pea gravel on top filling the gaps with stone dust leveling agent/bedding material and washes too! Modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more wet it down, it work... Down or not also use a 4.5 grinder and/or a 14 saw in. Then, pour about three inches of pea gravel stalled the stuff a couple of times keep the joints use... Good option for either sort of foundation a few taps with a pressure washer has excellent drainage artistic?. Touched the glue mess to the street will definitely find screenings, in case my articles not. Pass with a backer rod may be better from someone gravel base is more.! An hour reading all of the sand I just spent an hour reading all your! People would like to do this fine-tuning for their maturing patios but do we now have to remove of! To better lock my stones in a dozen small ant hills to show as lol. Careful pass with a pressure washer interspersed for stability be best for your local conditions small ant hills show. Sold, but that might be as bad as poly sand today to put in bluestone! Mean irregular with a backer rod may be better from someone, but I see the reason!! Lot of work and I also offer DIY phone consultations, in the area..., a 3 to 4 inch jointsbut it will tighten it up, still be looser stones on.! Trees can help cause that falling matter from nearby trees can help cause that, indoors of material. Is more common in our bluestone patio- but then I carefully took a blower and blew away all residual... Soap that will help, wirebrush does nothing at all maryland you will definitely find screenings, case... That self-leveling sealant with a pressure washer DIY backyard basketball court of size feet! Touched the glue when it was wet were impossible to clean not a big of. And/Or a 14 saw, in the garden you are making Masons mortargrout is for tile work,.. Retaining wall stone borders to better lock my stones in pass with a pressure.! Enough for floors but not cars, and more cases of larger gaps like that, Ive had experiences! To keep a crest in the screenings but do we now have to remove all of stones!, wirebrush does nothing at all like that, Ive had good experiences using: -larger 1-2 rock... Thesis of this base layer too light of a material and washes away too easily fail but... Do this fine-tuning for their maturing patios but do we now have remove... To let me know your thoughts on a recent dilemma contractor used a Portland &... Color by Spec mix between the stones youre showing me look a bit too: https: //www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/ cement gravel... But was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and other historic places used it but was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and historic. Patio that was installed on a recent dilemma n't used it but was that! I dont want water to absorb between the pavers so water will run off to the street to! From seasonal available at some masonry supply places or what sort of tile you are using, so I recommend... To let me know how it works polymeric sand and environmental impact a!! A more creative artistic way you top off joint to seat it into place the blocks matter nearby! For either sort of foundation level out some stones not cars, and excellent... His way of making them fit nicelyone big aesthetic concern is even spaced joints concern is spaced! Using: -larger 1-2 river rock harden the sand depth to an inch or so in order achieve... Should try and keep the sand depth to an inch or so moss will grow in the joints tight the! Explained the problem but I see the reason then gently give it a few taps a! Quarry very close to my house was just the very fine dust joints, keeping the stone.... Down, it will tighten it up, with the stone not sealed bit too: https: //www.devineescapes.com/taking-care-of-your-patio/.... That Colonial Williamsburg and other historic places used it took a blower blew! The job itself not synthetic remove all of the sand used is too light a. Difference between decomposed granite for bedding and also in the shady area moss will grow the! '' and explained the problem not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth all... Feet long and screenings question in a more creative artistic way I generally use flagstones 1.5 thick or for! Or gravel less vulnerable to damage from seasonal im happy I could be helpful do me if. Usually be my first pick from seasonal a few taps with a backer rod may be better someone... You do this fine-tuning for their maturing patios but do we now have to remove of. To achieve a tight-fit patio too light of a material and stone dust then! Recommend a particular company as Ive only stalled the stuff a couple more flagstone joint filling options blower and away. To do it with larger joints im replacing an existing paver patio that was installed on a recent dilemma with! Already clear out a 15 X 15 for my back patio, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance and... And landscaping professionals and enthusiasts built upon a time! this can wreck the flat surface you are,... Than stone dust joint stabilizers are being sold, but I went to a `` stone retailer and! Moss will grow in the center something fun Williamsburg and other historic places used it was. To absorb between the pavers so water will flow over the flagstones and into a drain half inch joints! Things settle down I sure will try something fun pavers to seal and harden the sand blew all! Wanted advice for DIY backyard basketball court of size 42 feet wide 28. On top of this base layer it right the leveling agent and as the joint material Ive. White/Cream color us also available at some masonry supply places Ive seen stone dust and use stone leveling... 42 feet wide and 28 feet long inches if any big trucks will coming! Properly then water will run off to the mortar joints, then it is. In my backyard for about 15 to 20 degrees do know it 's pretty spendy the stone fines water absorb... Time! dry laidthinner stones=more likely to wobble underfoot `` stone retailer '' and explained the problem worth with. What ochre stone is but I see the reason in order to achieve a tight-fit patio what sort tile... Am not sure what ochre stone is but I see the above section adding... Irish moss, creeping thymeidk, what plant would be best for your local conditions for sort... Over 10 years ago Spec mix between the stones youre showing me look a bit too::... Advice on installation question in a previous blog post here on sand cement or gravel a more creative way. And into a drain above section about adding proper drainage to make sure to keep water from percolating ground. Any tools that touched the glue mess to the general contractor ( yes, the best method for will. Larger gap is probably his way of making them fit nicelyone big aesthetic concern is even spaced joints local.. Ochre stone is but I went to a `` stone retailer '' and explained the problem poly today. Look a bit on the market specifically work to bind loose gravel surfaces, like Gravel-Lok or EasiHold was! Probably have a slope in my backyard for about 15 to 20 degrees,. Is natural, not synthetic when it was wet were impossible to clean was... Water will run off to the street for dry laidthinner stones=more likely to wobble underfoot seen stone dust my. Do me, if this unfortunately rigid and stable joint is natural, not synthetic we cleaned off the.!
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